So most comics and GN's are the standard floppy single issue comic size. Its a bit limiting...and frankly i personally hate the idea of using a format that is so mundane and pedestrian....plus i really just don't love the rectangle it makes from a design POV. Have you guys experimented or seen other sizes that really work for you?

I know that Mouse Guard is famously square. I've noticed Ninja/Cowboy/Viking from Image uses "Golden Age" formating...its bigger than normal comics size and has a more squared rectangle that i like. Even Ka-Blam offers the magazine size which is pretty close to that golden age sizing (which i'm thinking about using)

any thoughts?

my main concerns are:

1. future customers---My target market is comics fans....and they are a very very very particular bunch. Anything odd sized is less desirable to them i've noticed.
2. costs--different sized=custom=$$$

Different sizes are not necessarily more expensive to print if they optimize the printable area; that's technical even for pros, but it's relatively easy to ask a printer's advice. They can usually suggest small adjustments that cut the costs a bit. Or choose from any of all the "standard" book sizes available, not only those used for comics. If it's standard, it means it makes the most out of the printed surface.
I went straight for A4 size with my comic, being of a more European background – the American standard always seemed too cramped for me. You really get an eyeful with A4, and it's as standard, from a printer's point of view, as they come. But the children's books I make are square, and my "Driving in Lebanon" comic booklet is the exact size of a car manual, because the whole concept is that it's a dead serious (and deadpan) driving tutorial.

From what I read about book sizes, the collector's concern is mostly over storage? Since shelves and sleeves are all made to cater that standard size. On the other hand, if people like and want your work, they'll just follow you into whatever format you choose. I know it's true, for instance, of Chris Ware's audience as well as Benoît Peeters/François Schuiten's fans: both series adopt a different format for every single book, and that doesn't deter anyone. Maybe you can poll your readers to test the waters a bit?

If you're planning on selling them on your own - go for whatever size you like. But if you're catering to comic book shops to carry your stuff, you'll be hard pressed to get premium space if you have an odd sized book.

When we printed our oddly shaped floppy, we were told that it would be less desireable to stores because it could fit face out in some racks. Buut...I don't really think most places put proper graphic novels on spinner racks so I don't think the problem is quite for them. I think in the future if I made a non-standard book I'd go really distinctive so it looked like I had purpose in that difference (rather than its a stupid printing error or something).

Another thing to worry about is that if you go with a *really* extreme shape, bookstores will be less likely to carry you just because your book corners are likely to get really scuffed or bent from sticking out oddly.
And yeah, publishers will be a little wary because it costs more.

I'm personally a big fan of more squat/square/horizontal books, but I can see why you wouldn't want to go *too* far.

That's right on Drezz- you want you book to fit nicely on the shelf depending on what type of book your designing- for us, Eskeldia is a manga so we are going with the standard manga size of 5.0 x 7.5- note this size is not so standard when it comes to most U.S printing companies- so we are going custom with ours. fun times.

Isn't that a bit moot though? I mean no one is getting premium space unless you're getting published through Marvel or DC. its highly unlikely we're getting distributed by Diamond, so there will be very little to no pre-orders from Previews (if you're lucky to get listed) so if we're lucky we might get a local shop to buy one or two copies to be put in the indie section....which is usually a pretty eclectic range of sizes and formats.

Not to be a negative nelly, but i'm personally rethinking how important it all is for indie, DIY self published stuff. It all fits on the book shelf the same.

You'd be surprised how many comic stores display their titles alphabetically, regardless of publisher. Most larger shops have entire walls dedicated to certain publishers, sure, but they also have a number of 'indie' type sections which generally have shelf space that accommodates the traditional 6x9 floppy/trade/omnibus. Everything else just kinda sticks out.

There's a reason why the indie stuff gets relegated to the dark damp corner of the shop - it's not just because of popular titles being promoted by publishers, it's the weirdo size that doesn't play nice with the other conformist books.

I am currently working at 8.75 x 12.5 and this thread made me realize that I went with the size without really comparing what is standard or not. I guess I really dont care. The books I tend to gravitate towards are really not standard comic size. They are usually all random custom sizes. Also I am not doing issues, but volumes so that is also a factor.

@drezz--good point about comic shops and sizes. Which brings me back to my original question. Books like Cowboy/Ninja/Viking from Image are "Golden Age Sized" which is slightly larger and more square than most floppies, yet gets the same space as other mainstream books. What do you guys think of that size?

Is that the only other size you'd go unless your name is Chris Ware or Daniel Clowes?

Drezz has a great point. I also just want to throw in that I talked to a freelance distributor, Tony Shenton, who helps distribute lots of Xeric Grant winners as well a tons of Indie comics to comic stores. I asked if he was interested in distributing reMIND and the first thing he said was this:

"I'm interested but I would have to question one thing I read on your blog: the "coffee table" book comment. If this means that your book is intended to be larger than 8 1/2" x 11", you will see a fair amount of retailer resistance and lower sales. Just warning you that retailers don't always support larger-than-usual books because they are difficult to shelve." - Tony Shenton

Plus I know a guy who self-published a huge comic book and the main thing he says is that nobody will put it on their shelves. Even libraries turned him down solely because of the size. And this guy is an award winning character designer and the book is beautiful top quality.

Just more food for thought.

@Chris - I think that size sounds fine. If you like it then I'd go for it.

@jason--thanks for the solid advice!

its nice to have some more anecdotal information on that kinda stuff. What i'm taking away from this whole discussion is that you can bend the rules a bit....you can go with formats that already exist like the "Golden Age" size, but unless you're a Chris Ware, or Daniel Clowes getting published by Pantheon, you're not going to have much luck with odd sizes .

8.5x11 is a BORING size......but its the American standard. lol The Graphic Designer in me wants to always think about the format and size and design that element as well, but most times, going outside the box that much works against you more than for you.

Come to think of it, every review of DC's Wednesday's comics talks about how awesome it is, and then how much of a b#tch it is to store on a shelf. haha

I have a devious thought. If 8.5x11 is the standard and shelving is based on that, wouldn't say 9.5x11 still work for the shelving, but stick out? The librarians would curse you but the book would still stand out

8.5 x 11 may be the standard paper size, but I certainly wouldn't say it's the standard book size, GN or otherwise...

Jason, how large IS reMIND? Is it over the size he recommended?

Just to clarify what I was told by Tony Shenton. 8.5x11 is NOT the standard size of American comics, he was just saying that if your comic is OVER 8.5x11 you will have a harder time getting a store to display it on their shelves or ever buy it at all.

Cedarseed - It's a good thought but if those libraries and comic stores wont even accept your book in the first place then you'll never even have a chance to stick out. I think Libraries will accept more random sizes though. My friends book was just really big and oversized. The main reason for a more standardized GN is more for the Stores and Comic shops.

I believe the standard size American comic or trade is around 6.75x10.25. I got that size from Ka-blam just now.

reMIND is pretty close to standard American 6.75x10.5 .

@jason--that size is the floppy comic size. There really isn't a standard size for Hardcover graphic novels. Most use the same page size, but then add more size for the covers and what not. I have so many different sized things from every major publisher. It depends on how big your book boards are and all that stuff.

6x9 is the traditional format for non-bleed white gutter American comics. Your live area should be 6x9, because the artwork is 'floated' into a page that is 6.75" x 10.5". If you look at floppies and a number of traditional graphic novels, you'll note a half inch space on top and an inch on the bottom, half an inch in the gutter by the spine and 1/4 of an inch on the page edge.

Most comics do huge page splashes with artwork that bleeds off the edges - but your standard live area is generally 6x9" or 6x9.5".

When it goes to print, depending on where you are - it will have to conform to a mill sheet size. In the US they use an ANSI sheet size if I'm not mistaken. And that would probably be an 11x17 ANSI B - but if they run it on a web, the sheet would be huge and run 8-10 up.

I used mousegaurd as a base for bean in size when I produced the books (9x7). In translates really well on the web and the print comic has a different feel. A harder sell, but there are several other comics going for the landscaped box size and ore power to them.

trav

@drezz--well for this forum we should make the assumption that most people will be printing via POD which means 11x17 (12x18 on HP INDIGO and Others) sheet fed digital. If its POD your sizes are set with what they offer. If its like Jason Brubaker, with a low quantity (1-3k) offset run, he's most prob getting something on a sheet fed press, so its still that larger US parent sheet (25x38) w/ several up on a page.

Unless you're printing 4-5+ thousand copies, its unlikely anyone will be printing on a web press because that low of a volume isn't worth the set up and press time for the printer...let alone the costs involved.